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Report 1506
Report #1506 Skillset: Pureblade Skill: Bleeding Org: Serenguard Status: Completed Jul 2016 Furies' Decision: Solution 1. Problem: This report was originally aimed at removing Pre-Clot, but through discussion with envoys I have changed it to focus on PureBlades bleeding specifically. Right now 1vs1 the bleeding caused by Pureblade is not enough to pressure the large mana pools we have post-overhaul. Currently I can sit with a 10 action strategem at critical wounds using critical modifiers and between chervil and clot keep my bleeding + damage from becoming overwhelming and my mana from being pressured as no bleed amount costs more to clot than I can sip for. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Have the bleeding scale up more as wound levels increase. Numbers can be adjusted through testing over time 0 R: 0 Solution #2: Create a new combatstyle "anticoagulant" that doubles the cost of clotting for 3 seconds at the cost of wounding. - Numbers can be adjusted based on testing. 0 R: 0 Solution #3: Create a new combatstyle "anticoagulant" that limits the amount of clot commands you can send to 5, after a hit from Pureblade, at the cost of damage. Effect wears off after 5 seconds - Numbers can be adjusted through testing. - Chervil can still be used, I chose lowering damage since bleeding appears to be %-based on damage done. Player Comments: ---on 7/8 @ 01:03 writes: I fully expect this report to be controversial given the fact that some classes currently have what are considered excessive bleed mechanics, but hope that something can be worked out that benefits all parties. ---on 7/8 @ 01:43 writes: Opposed - pre-clotting is entirely integral to the function of bleed both pre- overhaul and now. Clotting has its own cost, an extremely inefficient mana-to- bleed ratio. 60 mana to clot 20 bleed, or thereabouts. Actually choosing to clot is already biting a bullet, to make the active and cognizant choice to take triple the mana damage in stead of health, because the alternative is even more painful. Failing to pre-clot is a punishment where the target's vitals are hit twice. To force clotting to only be able to be done after the first bleed tic will basically be a mechanical double-dipping, and it greatly boosts not just "excessive bleeding", but all bleeding, period. (Besides which, existing bleed mechanics are mostly already near a balanced state, and need no such boost to unbalance them where they were previously broken.) Such a wide-ranging change is unwarranted and unneeded. ---on 7/8 @ 02:03 writes: The problem with this report is that 'pre-clot' isn't really pre-clotting, as soon as you're hit, you are bleeding and have the bleeding affliction with a level of bleed attached to it. Given that this can be seen on GMCP now it's odd to try and delay the bleeding. There's also the question of how this changes anything other than delaying the bleed affliction? Can't they just clot away the bleeding away either way? ---on 7/8 @ 03:04 writes: I took "pre-clotting" as described to mean clotting before the first bleeding tic. Removing this function is supposed to allow PBs do use abilities that require the target to have bleeding, or that becomes stronger if the target has bleeding at a certain level etc. The concern is that people clot immediately upon being hit, and therefore the PB cannot use these abilities (by the time they regain bal, the bleed is gone). Disabling the ability to clot before the first bleeding tic, though, is not really a reasonable solution to that problem. ---on 7/8 @ 09:59 writes: Opposed. Perhaps consider adding an effect to one of the pureblade styles to assist with it? Like a brief blocking or limiter to the rate of clotting you can spam after bring hit? ---on 7/9 @ 04:46 writes: I'm opposed to solution 1 but could possibly work with solution 2 perhaps with some number tweaks. Double mana cost for 3 seconds seems overly rough. Something like double mana cost for a second or 50% increased cost for 3 seconds seems strong but not outright broken. ---on 7/9 @ 15:03 writes: Solution 2 at 1 second would be useless. You can just delay clotting 1 second with no serious issue. That is why I chose 3 seconds. It gives you time to clot regularily before a warrior gets balance back with a possibilty of being punished if you wait. The Bleeding tic does not happen till 5 seconds after the hit, so there is no worry about "double dipping" unless you just do not clot. Double mana cost is also not that harsh given the mana pools post-overhaul. At the current levels I can completely clot a single PB strikes bleeding for less than half a sips worth of mana. ---on 7/9 @ 15:05 writes: I will say I prefer option 3 though. At 5 seconds it means you cannot keep their clotting at 5 clots indefinately, because the effect is not intended to refresh itself. If it is on you then it won't reapply. Which means at most you could use it every second balance, giving a breather of catching up clotting and promoting an actual pressure to the large mana pools we now have. ---on 7/9 @ 15:23 writes: My concern here is that the solutions presented is how they might stack with other bleeding classes. Not totally opposed, but I think it should be considered. Solution 2 seems the most workable. ---on 7/9 @ 15:50 writes: After testing all the special modifiers at all wound levels using the Bleeder style for increased bleeding I found that I can completely clot and sip the mana loss back in 1 sip, Using Chervil lowers this cost even more obviously. I am wondering if people would be less opposed to just increasing the bleeding amounts on PB's special modifiers to something that scales up sharply at critical levels. ---on 7/10 @ 01:03 writes: I like the idea of scaling the bleeding, or introducing the ideas in the current solutions as modifiers over combatstyles. ---on 7/14 @ 01:57 writes: Now that the solutions have been reworked I support solution 1 (wound scaling) and possibly #2 (increasing the mana cost for a period of time after strike). I can't quite articulate why but I don't favor solution 3. Something about limiting the number of clots seems clunky to me and it would definitely be the harshest stacking with other bleeding classes since it is a hard limit of n number of clots regardless of mana pool. I think the numbers you currently have for solution 2 are a bit too high, I think we should start with a 50% increase cost for 3 seconds and see where that takes us but what I like about both #1 and #2 is that they are very adjustable which I think helps with the balancing process. ---on 7/14 @ 16:24 writes: With the new solutio ns full support for solution 1 and 2. Although I support solution 3 I have to echo Wobou on it ---on 7/16 @ 01:13 writes: Solutions wise, 1 is the least wide-ranging and has the least potential to upset the status quo in relation with other abilities (nightshadeblues+solution2 might not be a good idea, for example) and I will support #1. ---on 7/17 @ 14:50 writes: I don't like 2 or 3. I'd be okay with one if there were actual numbers, rather than just "more bleeding, we'll see how it works." So as a result, I'm opposed to this report due to a lack of specifics and quantifiable solutions.